Bilateral relations, security in the region, but also how Romania can continue to support the Republic of Moldova in the EU accession negotiations - these are the topics covered in an interview conducted by IPN with Victor Viorel Ponta, former prime minister and independent candidate in the Romanian presidential elections.

How do you find Chisinau this time?

It seems to me that it has changed for the better in terms of the organization of the city, the way the city looks, but I'm not fooled, I know the figures very well and the figures here in Chisinau and in Bucharest are pretty bad. Speaking of inflation, of young students who leave and then hardly come back. Here Romania has been a little unfair to the Republic of Moldova, because we benefit from many of your people, from doctors to artists, and somehow we have taken them away from you, much like Europe did to us. The doctors took from us and we took from you.

It's not really fair, but I repeat, inflation, poverty and, above all, this fear, which I think is even greater in Chisinau than in Bucharest, about Russia, about war, and, I say, I like to talk about the past, but, unfortunately, we have to talk about the present and the future, because what is happening today does not look very good.



Today you came here to inaugurate the statue of Queen Mary in Chisinau. What does this event mean to you?

I wanted to be here on March 27. I believe and I hope that for everyone March 27 is Unification Day, and I believe that at some point the Republic of Moldova and Romania must be united, but not in the Russian way, that is to say by force. A lot of people ask me, and I am speaking now as a politician who is running for an important position, the most important one in Bucharest, I believe that Romania and Moldova can unite and must unite in one way: a referendum in both Romania and Moldova, with the majority of the population in agreement. I would vote 'for', as a Romanian citizen, not by force or not out of fear.

As Prime Minister of Romania, you have supported many projects: schools, kindergartens, buses and other aid in very difficult situations for the Republic of Moldova. What is the most important project for you?

Kindergartens, definitely! The Organ Hall or, whatever, as far as significance. But, if I'm not mistaken, I brought substantial help to the maternity hospital here in Chisinau, because the conditions were bad, conditions that at one time were also bad in Romania. I'm not going to say how good it is in Romania and how bad it is here. Quite simply, it was hard to accept that mothers could give birth in the conditions of 30-50 years ago. I considered and still consider today that, in fact, everything that is going well on one side of the Prut must also go well on the other side, whether we are talking about SMURD, kindergartens or hospitals.

In fact, this is the most important sign of brotherhood, otherwise political statements, bridges of flowers, even that with cutting ribbons at monuments, are also important, but, in fact, people understand when they feel that their lives are changing for the better. I still believe that the number one problem of the Republic of Moldova and Romania is the fact that we are unable to bring our fellow citizens back, but we cannot bring them back by force under any circumstances. They left from here, from Chișinău, from Iași, where they left, to have a better salary, to have a better school for their children, to have a better hospital, to have less bureaucracy, digitalization.

I am convinced that together, in the next five years, we can bring back one million, one and a half million Romanians and Moldovan citizens, if we offer them the conditions they have now in Italy, Spain and Great Britain.

This migration is also happening in European countries.

Yes, but it's a pity, because the potential is very great, the talent of young people is extraordinary and we are practically wasting it. I mean, apart from the suffering, the fact that elderly parents are left behind, the fact that children whose parents have gone abroad are left behind. There is no greater wealth beyond all that God has given us, with grain, with oil, with good wine, in fact, the greatest wealth is people, and we waste it and waste it. You cannot boast that Romania or Moldova is doing well when a quarter of its young population is leaving.

How do you think this confidence could be increased among citizens to stay here, to build a career here or for those who have gained some experience abroad to return?

I am very pragmatic and I don't like general speeches anymore. Conditions: the salary should be almost equal to what I get now in France, Spain or Germany. Kindergarten, especially because parents go to work and have nowhere to leave their children. School, in Chisinau or Bucharest or Iasi, to give you the same opportunities after your studies as someone studying in Spain or France. The digitization, de-bureaucratization and corruption is appalling. Why terrible? Because it's everywhere.



Let's go back for a moment to bilateral relations between Moldova and Romania. What else do you think Romania could do for the Republic of Moldova? For example, in the field of business development, which is an area of major interest here in the Republic of Moldova.

It has been a long-standing effort. Talking about the presence of a Romanian bank here, the other government banks should also invest in infrastructure development. I am talking about CEC and Eximbank. The other banks are also foreign in Romania and do business if they make a profit.

There have been times when we managed to find solutions at the border, so that trucks and goods wouldn't have to sit for days on end because of red tape. Now I'm going to drive off, I'm curious to see. I had a project with the then government of Iurie Leanca, to standardize everything related to taxation in such a way that you basically pay the same taxes whether your business is in Iasi or Chisinau, because this makes it much easier, yes, much easier than the business side. And actually, what I think is the number one problem at the moment is the security side. There's war in Ukraine. Ukraine with Russia. I want very much, and I promote this in Romania, that the best thing is peace.

There is war and I think Romania has to guarantee the military security of Moldova, of Moldova, not of Ukraine, that we don't meddle in other parts. At the same time, Romania must exert political pressure on Chisinau so that Moldova and Romania are not drawn into the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. I know very well what I am talking about, I sense these two dangers. As you asked, guaranteeing Romania's military security and, at the same time, preventing Romania and Moldova from being drawn into the conflict between Ukraine and Russia.

If you have military security, then you can talk business, because otherwise any big company will say: what happens if the Russians come, the Russians don't come, it's war, it's not war. Money flees our region if there is no security. Romania has security because of its partnership with the United States. I have a saying that is also valid in Chisinau. Vladimir Putin is only afraid of Donald Trump.

Both Romania and the Republic of Moldova are facing a rather aggressive hybrid war, with a lightning avalanche of propaganda and disinformation in the public space, in the media. How do you think we could cope? How do you think we could increase our resilience in this area? What is Romania doing in this direction, and what strategies or examples could the Republic of Moldova take up?

I am telling you what not to do with what Romania has done, because we canceled our elections in December and then we started complaining that Russia was attacking us. Things were not quite like that in Romania, in the sense that we thought we had no problem, but we found that the elections, which are, after all, the most important part of democracy, were distorted and continue to be distorted today, when we are once again being campaigned in Romania by all sorts of networks outside Romania. You don't cancel elections and then start looking for culprits. I believe that Romanians should have prepared themselves and they did not. Maybe you do it better.

What do you think were Romania's biggest shortcomings in this respect?

First of all, we have a lot of institutions, as you have here, fewer, which consume a lot of money and even today, when we talk, look, when I am in Chisinau today, they are not able to tell you which are those fake TikTok, Instagram, Facebook accounts. Romania is making a very big mistake, which I hope you will not make, and that is that it has started to wage war with real people who have other opinions. I am against the idea of blocking real accounts. Whatever opinion you or I have about the political leadership, about me, about Ponta, if you are a real account, if you are a person, journalist, politician, simple interested commentator, there should be no sanction.

Romania, instead of fighting with fake accounts and foreign networks that manipulate us, fights with real people who have a different political opinion. This is censorship and you do not need censorship in Chisinau. I hope that you will learn from our experiences in Bucharest and understand that any fight with false accounts and networks outside the country is legitimate, but any fight with someone real in the country who has a different opinion from the powers that be is censorship.

But even that someone who is real can be a tool in the hands of the Kremlin. What should be done in such a situation?

I believe in freedom of speech and I believe that any true person, any opinion has a right to life and should be allowed as long, sure, as long as it doesn't incite to crimes. The fact that a real man says anything bad about me, anything I don't like, is freedom of speech and I think it's more important than anything. I also want freedom of expression to be guaranteed in Romania, and I hope that the same will happen in Chisinau, because otherwise we will end up in Russia, where there is someone who, in my opinion, misjudges who is allowed to express themselves and who is not.

From the hybrid war and Russia we are moving towards the European Union. Integration into the European Union is the most important topic right now. We are well aware that Romania is a strong ally of our country, an advocate there, in Brussels, and I would like to ask you how do you see the European course of the Republic of Moldova, how fast things are moving and in which areas should they move faster?

It is definitely the most important for the Republic of Moldova to be part of the European Union. I will always remember with great pleasure when the Prime Minister of Moldova and I went to Brussels together with the Prime Minister of Moldova, the two of us, the President of the European Commission received us and said on our way out, I will give you both an extraordinary present, Mr. Baroso came out with us and said: We announce the lifting of visas for Moldovan citizens. We were both so happy that, look, Romania and Moldova have done something together and treated us together. Otherwise the safest and quickest way is to unite with Romania. I come back, so as not to distort the words, not by force. Romania is not coming with the army to take Moldova, but only by referendum in both countries. I would like to have such a referendum in Romania and I am convinced that the majority of Romanians would vote in favor of it.

However, I believe that Moldova and the government in Chisinau should leave politics and empty declarations to one side. Europe is famous for empty declarations and, if you do not put any substance behind them, they are useless. European leaders get together, take pictures, drink, come here, they are very good at making declarations and taking pictures, but European leaders often have big problems with facts, because everyone goes home and has other interests. Therefore, I think that Chisinau needs fewer declarations of love and pictures and more concrete things to do with making living standards compatible, first and foremost. Otherwise, if you join the European Union and everyone leaves, only those who cannot leave will remain.

I think that Romania helps a lot, but less ideology will get you into the European Union faster. Too much ideology and too much, how shall I say, political battle will slow down your path towards the European Union.



Yes, this ideology, unfortunately, cannot be changed overnight. It takes generations.

No, times change. You know how the world has changed since January 20th of this year. Before it was the Biden administration, now it's the Trump administration. It's changed more than it's changed in 20 years. Romania needs to change. Romania is changing after last year's election, which was a shock to the classical political class. They're going to give it to you, too, if no one is wise enough to understand that enough with the hypocrisy. People want concrete things. They are fed up with hypocrisy, they are fed up with pictures and declarations and I believe that in Moldova and Romania everyone wants peace and a different relationship between politicians and society.

However, I will insist once again, please, with this question, with the start of negotiations, what progress do you see in the Republic of Moldova?

I'm not giving you notes, I'm not here in Chisinau to give you notes. I just said one thing that I learned in Romania. Romania joined the European Union because at a certain point the political leaders, all of them, there was a famous Snagov Pact, said, Sir, we do not fight among ourselves on this issue. I can see in Chisinau that there is a political battle. Who is in government is very good and pro-European, all the others are anti-European. This is a lie, it is a lie in Romania too. No one is anti-European in Romania, we all want to be in the European Union. So, this division between I am pro-European, the others are against, is a false division that does harm and, in fact, prevents you from having concrete results. I believe that you are just as much in need as we are in Bucharest of some themes where you no longer fight as a political adversary, but where you put everyone at the table.

Given the deep historical and cultural ties between the Republic of Moldova and Romania, do you think it would be appropriate to simplify the procedures for regaining citizenship? There are over 60 thousand applications.

I would extend the right to citizenship to all citizens of the Republic of Moldova and I will do so. On the Romanian side, it is not the Romanian side's fault, all sorts of organizational problems have led to an increasingly long and bureaucratic process.

That is, the fact that you have to deal with paperwork, you have to submit it 10 times. I would like to say one very clear thing which I have applied as Prime Minister and will continue to apply: Moldovan citizens are not equal to other citizens of the world who apply for a visa or residence in Romania.

You have a special status, based on belonging to the same culture, values, traditions. Therefore, Moldovan citizens cannot be treated like a citizen of, I don't know, any other country who wants to obtain residence or citizenship in Romania.

There is still something to discuss about those from the Transnistrian region. That is a matter for you to resolve, not us. I mean, for us Moldova is up to the Dniester, for you it is across the Dniester, for us, I repeat, it is up to the Dniester.

The press in the Republic of Moldova is closely following everything that is happening in Romania, the evolution of the electoral campaign. The European Parliament and Romanian Parliament elections saw record turnouts here in the Republic of Moldova, with more than 90 000 Moldovans with Romanian citizenship voting. You are an independent candidate and polls put you among the favorites. What message do you have for Moldovan voters?

My message is addressed to all Romanian citizens who also have Moldovan citizenship or vice versa, but also to those who do not yet have it and I hope to have it as soon as possible. As President, I will support the granting of citizenship to all Moldovan citizens, I will support Romania providing security guarantees to Moldova against Russia, because we have no other adversary, fortunately, it is not other countries which attack us. I will also support Moldova joining Romania in the European Union as soon as possible, and in NATO, in partnership with the United States of America, which is, in fact, the only partner which truly guarantees our security, so that it does not allow itself to be dragged into other countries' wars.

I think I have been quite clear about my three objectives on the economic side. I repeat, what I have done as Prime Minister shows what I am thinking and, yes, I believe that whatever exists on one side of the Prut in terms of economic development and infrastructure must also exist on the other side.

Mr. Ponta, thank you very much for your presence.

I thank you, I am glad to be back in Chisinau and I hope that all my opponents will come and be as direct as I have been towards you.