After 25 years of the first free elections, Poland is a fully-fledged member of the European Union and NATO, with a high level of social cohesion concerning the role of the democratic values in the internal life and the external development course of the country. How Polish society obtained such results and what lessons the Moldovan society can learn from this path covered by the Polish people can be found out from the IPN interview with the Ambassador of the Republic of Poland to the Republic of Moldova Artur Mihalski.
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- Poland has been extensively marking the 25th anniversary of the first free elections. Why were they so important for the Polish people?
- On June 4, 1989, Poland held the first ‘almost free’ elections, as we use to say. Why ‘almost’? Because we, the “Solidarity”, being then in the opposition, negotiated the initiation of the democratic process with the Communist power within very difficult Roundtable discussions. It wasn’t possible otherwise. It was impossible for an authoritarian regime to be maintained in Poland. The problem was that they didn’t want to yield the power up, while we wanted very much to avoid any kind of clashes and bloodshed because we experienced such a situation during the period of the Martial Law, when several people died.
Sincerely speaking, there were persons among the Communists who already understood that the country’s economy was no longer functional and the quality of people’s lives was worse and worse and a change was needed. The opposition was allotted only 35% of the seats in the Polish Seim, which is the lower Chamber of the Polish Parliament. The persons could compete freely for these seats. The power secured the other 65% of the seats for its candidates. The places in the Senate, which is the upper chamber of the Polish Parliament, were fully free. As a result of the elections, the opposition gained 35% of the seats in the Seim and 99 seats of the 100 in the Senate. The only seat that remained vacant was occupiednot by a Communist, but by an independent. It was a grandiose victory and it was evident that early elections won’t take place and that Poland switched over to full democracy.
You asked why the elections were so important. In two months, we already formed a new government headed by a Prime Minister. It was the first non-Communist Premier not only in Poland, but also in the so-called Soviet camp. I still remember the speech of Tadeusz Mazowiecki, of August 1989, if I’m not wrong. The long-awaited processes started in a number of states. It was the so-called Autumn of the Nations.
- Did this become a catalyst?
- It was a catalyst indeed. But each state suffered and struggled for the own democracy. Romania obtained independence owing to the Romanians, the Czech Republic owing to the Czech people, etc. But the elections in Poland were like a source of inspiration…
- … confirmation that everything can change?
- Yes, confirmation that things can change. I think this is why June 4, 1989 is so important. It is important not only for Poland, but also for the Central and Eastern Europe on the whole.
- For 10 years, Poland has been a fully-fledged member of the EU. How was Poland’s path from a satellite of the Soviet Union to an EU member? What lessons can Moldova learn from Poland’s European integration experience?
- The European integration of Poland was both difficult and easy. I will tell you why. It was easy because we, in Poland, had not doubt about the country’s course after the events of 1989. Everyone realized that our place was in the European family. From this viewpoint, it was easy as everyone knew where we went.
At the same time, it was hard because the country was in a deplorable state after the several decades of Communist government. It was difficult to leave such a system behind. The first minister of finance after the Communist Government in Poland, Leszek Balcerowicz, did a kind of shock therapy. We reached the conclusion that it would be painful for the Polish people, but the changes had to be made immediately, until the people were enthusiastic. We without delay declared that we want to become part of the EU and NATO. We joined NATO 15 years ago and the EU ten years ago. But I want to emphasize that no parallels should be drawn between Poland and Moldova in this respect. This was Poland’s choice, but there are many EU member states that are not NATO members and this thing should be underlined because there are voices misleading the people by saying that the accession to the EU implies accession to NATO etc. This is not true. Poţi fi membru al Uniunii Europene fără a fi în cadrul NATO. Şi astfel de ţări sunt multe, să vă dau exemplul Suediei, Austriei.
It was hard because painful reforms were needed in the European integration process. But, owing to the, Polish society was built based on new foundations. Poland is now a completely different country. Even the people changed. They are less dissatisfied and smile more often.
- What lesson can Moldova learn from Poland’s path to the EU?
- I think the most important thing is for the Moldovans to believe that this thing is possible. This is the most important. I have followed the atmosphere in Moldova for a year and a half and I see that the problem does not reside in the fact that the Moldovan citizens cannot do something for the European integration. They simply do not believe in this. A relevant example is the recent liberalization of the visa regime for all the Moldovan citizens. Two weeks before the abolition of the EU visa requirements for Moldovans, after we had spoken about this for a rather long period of time, the Moldovan people were still skeptical that something like this is possible. It won’t be easy, but it’s possible. I underline once again in the name of all the European ambassadors that if Moldova integrates into the EU, this will be due to the convocation, efforts and determination of the country’s people because the assistance that you receive from the EU is indeed assistance. However, your effort and determination are a priority. There is no other way. I mean you cannot receive assistance from the EU and oscillate between wanting to become an EU member or not. This is a very dangerous moment for many former Soviet states. But this oscillation in Moldova is less pronounced. The citizens from the former Soviet states consider that the West is built on money and always impose conditions and seek money and investments from the Wrest for making certain changes. I would like to ask these people - did the money or the people who invented it appear first? I ask to be understood correctly. I do not want to say that the money should be neglected. On the country, it is unimportant. But reason comes from a different detection. Firth of all we should know what we want and work hard to achieve our objectives. The money comes afterward. Not vice versa”.
- How did the implemented reforms change the life of the Polish people at a time when there were myths and fears in society about the integration into the EU? How justified were the Polish people’s fears?
- The European integration process in our country lasted for ten years. For ten years we have been members of the EU. There were Euro-skeptics and the arguments they used against the integration into the EU were similar to those used in Moldova, especially as regards the situation of farmers and peasant farmsteads. They said the Polish products will not cope with the competition on the EU market and they will disappear and that the market will be invaded by products from the EU member states. There were such concerns and they generally appear because of lack of experience and information about the EU in general. Surely the European Union is an organization that has a multitude of principles with which we, the member states, agree. Not only with the language and culture, but also with the traditions and values of this union. It is a union of independent and free countries with their own traditions and specific features, but which works as a family. I can say that there are farmers in Poland who are dissatisfied with something, but it’s impossible to transform the country into a paradise the next day after the integration into the EU. There are difficulties, and chances are. They can now be satisfied with something, but they don’t criticize the fact that we are in the EU. On the contrary, the people like it and the Euro-enthusiasts represent over 80% of the total number of citizens of Poland. There are also people who are indifferent, but nobody challenges the integration into the EU. The people can discuss certain aspects of the integration, but everything depends on internal discussions, without affecting the main principles.
- Does this depend on the dialogue between the power and the people?
- Surely. There are different political forces. Some of the focus on certain subjects, while others on other subjects. The people make a choice between them and emphasis is put on particular matters deadening on the people’s opinion.
- As you saw, there are many Euro-skeptics in Moldova and there are parties with a different position on this chapter. Many think that the state insufficiently informs the people about the benefits of the European integration.
- As regards the information of the people, there is always place for the better here. Many persons from the government told me that there was a time when they centered more on the negotiations with the European partners and allotted less time to the dialogue with the own society. But everyone probably saw that this dialogue is intense now and the young generation is better informed. Certainly there are people (and this is essential for the freedom typical of democracy) who need a lot of time to understand and they cannot be yet convinced. They needs more time. Time will come when they will understand. There were people in Poland who believed that the integration into the EU will bring no good. Today they keep silent or prefer to forget what they said.
- Why U.S. President Barack Obama announces the security plan for Central and Eastern Europe namely in Warsaw?
- The U.S. President Barack Obama and many other EU heads of state as well as the Prime Minister of Canada arrived in Poland to mark the 25th silver anniversary of the first free elections. It is a symbolic moment that served as a stimulus for making changes in the country and the led to the Fall of the Berlin Wall. The elections were the starting point. This is probably why Barack Obama chose Warsaw to make his idea known. Such anniversaries are a good occasion for cone vying particular messages. We can also mention here the difficult regional context and the confrontation in Ukraine, towards which the President of the United States didn’t remain indifferent and expressed his position very clearly. I think Warsaw was the perfect place for Barack Obama to make his plans known.
- What role will Moldova play in ensuring security within the new security system in central and Eastern Europe?
- I want to tell you several things about the Eastern Partnership. We proposed this partnership to the EU together with Sweden and it became the EU’s policy and the answer to numerous wishes, dreams and aspirations of the people from the EaP member states to be as closer to the EU as possible and to modernize their lives. We did it. Moldova profited from this occasion maximally. As you know, this thing in many states happens different. In Moldova it went well. There are yet many things to be done, but Moldova achieved the most remarkable results. In terms of stability, it is very important to find your position in the European area. I speak first of all about the European dimension, because, from the viewpoint of security, the deluge can be somehow different, while Moldova announced first of all its European course.
Alina Marin, IPN.
