Interview IPN x 2
Last week's visit of the delegation of the Latvian Saeima in Moldova had several distinct features that called for a special format of the IPN interview conducted by Valeriu Vasilica. His interviewees, Deputy Presidents of the Legislative in Riga, Inese Libina Egnere and Andrejs Klementjevs, represent two major political structures and, implicitly, large distinct social categories, with marked Europhile preferences on one side and Rusophile options on the other side. Both interviewees have been asked separately to answer the same questions and the answers are published on the same page in order to help us, Moldovans, understand how these two options can live together in another Parliament and in another country. It might teach us something...
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Inese
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Andrejs
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IPN: The first distinct feature of the visit is that the delegation of the Latvian Parliament is headed by two deputy presidents of the Saeima, while traditional protocol would suggest a one-headed format instead of a bi- ori multi-cephalous one. Why two Latvian deputy Speakers in Moldova at the same time? |
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ILE: The Parliament is constituted of both the coalition and the opposition, and for democratic reasons when we have foreign visits we always take the coalition and the opposition. This is a non-written rule in our Parliament's policy. As we are working together in the Saeimas's Presidium, which includes two Vice Speakers, for the foreign affairs of the Republic of Latvia we are keeping this formal format as well. When the other Vice Speaker from the opposition party meets ambassadors in his duties, he does it according to the official foreign policy of the Republic of Latvia, because at that moment he represents the Parliament rather than his own party. So I see this as a very democratic way, which we are also showing to the Moldovan politicians, an example explaining that it is important not to exclude the opposition. In the Latvian Saeimas, many important committees are chaired by the opposition. One such example is the Social Committee, which is chaired by the opposition even if it is related to the budget and state money. Because we are the Parliament, we are all representing the people and you never know how the people will decide in the next period, who is the coalition and who is the opposition. For me as a really democratic person this is the right way for the Parliament to work. |
АK: The explanation is that we represent different parties and different ideologies. Such a balance is a requirement for each delegation sent from Latvia. In this case, the choice can be explained this way: the duties of the first Deputy Speaker, my colleague Inese Libina, are closer to the field of foreign policy, while I was the head of the host group in 2012 when our country was visited by the delegation of the Moldovan Speaker. That's why it's easier for me to speak with people whom I have already met. We have also participated in the organization of an important event last year, when your country hosted 8 speakers from EU countries, including Latvia. So, this visit can be considered a continuation of the meetings from 2012 and 2013. |
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IPN: And the second distinct feature of the visit. You are the acting Deputy Speakers of the Latvian Parliament, whose mandate has expired and this is because at the beginning of this month you've had legislative elections and, as far as I know, the new Saeima isn't fully formed with all of its structures and leaders. It's somewhat of an “unstandard” situation because every delegation at this level reaches some agreements that must be implemented later. Who will implement what you have agreed with the Moldovan side? What can we learn from this practice of yours? |
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ILE: We did have Parliamentary elections recently and, according to the Latvian Constitution, the new Parliament will start work on November 4. Also according to the Constitution, until November 4, the current Parliament is still legally in office. The election results are that the coalition will stay the same, so negotiations are going on and the President already nominated the incumbent Prime Minister to further serve as part of the next coalition. I'm representing the current coalition and also the coalition that will form the government starting from November. Especially since Latvia is preparing to take over the EU presidency for the first time, it is important to be prepared for one of our priorities – the Eastern Partnership, with Moldova being one of the member countries. So we are really concentrated on cooperation within the Eastern Partnership. Being a member of a political party that represents the Foreign Affairs Minister, I also represent the official foreign affairs line of our country. So all my statements here represent the views of the current coalition and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and also of the next government. From this perspective, our Moldovan friends can rely on the fact that we have a mandate for the next four years. Even more, compared to someone making a visit in the middle of the political term, with one or two years left, we have four full years ahead. Also, all the parties that are now in the Parliament have signed a special memorandum regarding the EU presidency stating that we will never use the EU presidency for our own narrow political goals, that both the coalition and the opposition will be present in the presidency and that we will use the presidency in the interest of the country. Here on this visit, as well, we are using it according to our country's goals and according to the priorities of the presidency. |
АK: Regardless of the colleagues who will head the next Saeima, there will be a group of collaboration with the Moldovan Parliament and, most likely, the representative of my party and that of the “Unity” party will be included in this group. All of the problems that we've examine in Moldova will be continued by the next members of the collaboration group. That's why we don't link the guarantees regarding the fulfillment of promises with ourselves as persons, but we speak about a format of collaboration on all levels, including the organizational and legislative ones, which doesn't change according to the persons that represent out interests. That's why the agreements reached in 2012 are still on today and the ones we reached today will be implemented in the future. We don't deny that the human factor plays an important role as well. For example, the Moldovan MP I've met in Riga in 2012 is now Minister of Economy. I think it as easier for us to reach an agreement, including on such topics as the promotion of Moldovan goods on the Latvian market, as part of the European assistance. I don't rule out one of us remaining Deputy Speaker in the next Parliament anyway. |
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IPN: As regards the issues agreed on during this visit, how much are they related to the fact that Latvia takes over chairmanship of the EU Council on January 2015? |
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ILE: One of our priorities is to continue the Eastern Partnership agenda. We'll host the next Eastern Partnership Summit in Riga in May. It is our task in May to show what results the Summit can bring. You remember that the last summit was in Vilnius; it was before the Ukrainian situation, before the signing of the Association Agreement and before the geopolitical situation has changed. So the Riga Summit in May will be really important for the EaP roadmap, for Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine, to see their approach towards the European integration. We are here before the presidency also to invite high-level representatives from Moldova to attend our Summit. In parallel to the political summit, we are also organizing a Eastern Partnership business forum. In Moldova we had meetings with the Minister of Economy and Minister of Foreign Affairs and we invited them to come to this business forum and use the Eastern Partnership Summit for your country's economic interests as well. |
АK: Indeed, politics are changing rapidly lately and we don't even know how Riga's agenda of actions until the end of the year will be formed. In any case, I've told the Moldovan Ministry of Foreign Affairs and that of Economy that you can contact us directly and ascertain or modify some things rapidly. As regards the business forum, there is a way to reach an understanding. You must make the most of the chance when leaders of almost all countries will be in Latvia. That's why we are willing to cooperate and think that this is normal, to reach out to Moldovan politicians and businessmen and help visit Riga in order to solve problems that, at the moment, would be harder to solve in other countries. |
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IPN: Some Moldovan politicians think that Moldova might join the EU already in 2020 and for this to happen, Moldova must obtain the status of candidate country in 2017, for which an application must be made no later than 2015, possibly while Latvia chairs the EU. How would your country deal with such an application? And, if it's no secret, what are the stances of the parties you represent, one Europhile and the other Russophile? |
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ILE: Our experience involved a really long process spanning from the association agreement in 1995 to the actual accession in 2004. Now our experience involves the period from 2004 to 2014: our first ten years in the European Union, and now, starting from 1 January 2014, we are also a member of the Eurozone. We had this step-by-step approach and we are here also to explain our experience and to offer our expertise. As concerns the steps of Moldova, the European Union as an organization will have the same approach to all the EaP members and evaluate each country's steps following the association agreement and visa liberalization. Every country has its own way and if a country is there at the door it will be evaluated according to the existing circumstances. As an elected parliamentarian, today I cannot comment (on a potential decision regarding Moldova). But what I can say is that we want Europe to be strong and secure enough, in light of the geopolitical situation with Russia. |
АK: I don't think this topic will make the agenda of our party next year. We realize very well that this lies within the competence of the party represented by my colleague and in this case I support her, there can be no questions here. Foreign policy, regardless of our differences, is common and coincides with that of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and of the President, so there are no disagreements. As regards the pro-European and the pro-Russian party, our party is pro-European. We have never questioned in our party program or in any other document the European option, European integration, the agreement with NATO and so on. In other words, you have indeed spotted some nuances and researched Baltic press and there are attempts to paint us in colors alien to us. Our relations with the Russian Federation are of partnership, but we are not a pro-Russian party. |
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IPN: I cannot not ask you about the attitude of your country and your parties regarding the crisis in Ukraine, the role of the Russian Federation in this crisis and the potential or real threats of this crisis for Latvia? I'm asking you because in the context of this regional crisis, Moldova is practically in the same situation, perhaps even in a more difficult one because Latvia can count on the solidarity of the EU and NATO. |
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ILE: Indeed, the geopolitical situation has changed and we are really worried about what is happening in Ukraine. We are concerned that Russia is stepping out of the international law and international treaties and violates the integrity of the Ukrainian soil. The Latvian Parliament and government have clearly stated that it is not normal that Russia breaks the international law. Having a common history (with Ukraine), we are advocating for this issue in all the international organizations in the EU and NATO. We strongly advocate that we need a solution for this conflict. We have the understanding that the frozen conflict here in Moldova is also very dangerous and also needs a solution. The international community should understand that such frozen conflicts can be exploited by Russia. Moldova and Ukraine can both count on Latvia's position on these matters; the Latvian government and society won't change it. This issue was really important in the recent election campaign. I'm more than sure that the current coalition remains in place because the Latvian society wants our country to remain a strong part of the European Union and of NATO and we are advocating that other countries join the secure European space as well. |
АK: I'll answer briefly: I see no threat for Latvia because we have an agreement with NATO which guarantees our security and we also have the EU's solidarity, naturally. In Latvia, our foreign policy is coordinated with the leaders of the foreign policy bloc. |
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IPN: În acelaşi context, dar despre probleme practice şi reale mari pe care le are Republica Moldova în urma restricţiilor economice impuse de Federaţia Rusă: Cu ce poate ajuta Letonia, suplimentar la ceea ce se cunoaşte deja, pentru depăşirea acestei situaţii? |
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ILE: We are offering our expertise and our help in many areas, for example, in the modernization of production so that Moldova can achieve compliance with European standards and enter the European markets. We really want to help Moldova open the European gates. We are capable to do that because we understand the problems and the situation in Moldova. |
АK: Yes, it's true, this is a political issue. We have been on the European markets for quite a while already and realized that domestic production must compete with high-quality European production and this is why we pay great attention to marketing, promotion, packaging, processing, so that our products met the EU's standards. As far as I know, these days a specialist from our veterinary service of the Ministry of Agriculture will come to Chisinau and help your specialists so that your goods, which are suitable for your domestic market, were good for European consumers as well. There are some details, some specific approaches to European markets and we are willing to become a training base for you.
In turn, we try to enter your markets as well because we also face some difficulties caused by Russian trade restrictions, especially concerning dairy products and we are very interested in a trade agreement. We've agreed with your Minister of Economy that our chambers of commerce and industry will meet, prepare some proposals and we'll start working intensively because there are no political problems between us, international agreements don't hinder us, we have a direct airline, we have joint exhibitions like Riga Food, etc. We really hope that businessmen from our countries will find each other and the politicians will help them. In order to raise the level of these meetings and provide state guarantees so as to avoid disagreements between the representatives of the business world, we've reached some agreements during this visit and we are willing to work in the same format in future. |
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| IPN: About 20 years ago, when our countries became independent, Moldova and Latvia started on different paths regarding the issues of citizenship and integration of national minorities. Moldova had perhaps the most liberal stance possible, granting citizenship to all of its inhabitants, while Latvia and the other two Baltic countries, former Soviet republics, had a more selective or even restrictive approach. Why then the issue of minorities has remained about the same for both countries despite the different approaches? | |||
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ILE: As a lawyer by profession, I can explain the legal framework for that. When we regained our independence, we had the citizens of independent Latvia and their children, and we gave the possibility to other citizens of the former Soviet Union to choose whether they are loyal to independent Latvia. And this is a naturalization process that is normal anywhere in the world – it shows your loyalty, it shows that you speak the language, that you know the Constitution and the history of the state you are living in. We changed our Citizenship Law to give the children born after 1991 the possibility to become citizens by birth, and sometimes the parents don't take the opportunity to do so, because they want them to be connected to Russia and be able to travel to Russia more easily, for example. However, they are loyal citizens, they live in the free country of Latvia, where they enjoy all the minority rights, such as education in Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian or other language. This was the only way for Latvia to regain independence and return to the European family where it belonged before Soviet occupation. However, we see that there are citizens who don't want to accept the change, who deny the occupation, who don't want to be in Europe because they feel allegiance to some other country. So I think that the Latvian, Lithuanian and Estonian approach was the only way; they would have never been part of the EU and NATO in other circumstances. |
АK: Surely, we have different approaches to this issue. We think this was the greatest mistake. We didn't understand back then and don't understand now why the Parliament didn't vote for the “zero option” of citizenship, granting it to all the inhabitants. Lithuania reached this level and they didn't have such big problems with their non-citizens. Today, we have 15% of the population lacking citizenship and some rights, including political rights. They bear the tax burden, but cannot actively participate in elections as voters or candidates. Unfortunately, this happens on all levels, local and national. We think that we must apply OSCE's recommendations in this particular field. We fight and we insist that the naturalization process must be simplified. We think that the current conditions are quite harsh, especially on people above 60 years of age. That is why I think that this problem remains an majore one to this day and is the reason why we cannot join forces and get rid of some things that divide us. The stance of my party is that it is indeed a big mistake to maintain such a big “army” of non-citizens. |
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IPN: Latvia has been in the Eurozone for about a year and you can already draw some conclusions regarding the related benefits and responsibilities. Should Moldovans want to be in a similar situation? |
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ILE: When we held our referendum about joining the EU back in 2003, we already knew this would be a normal consequence that one day we would become a member of the Eurozone as well. It depended on our economy and our ability to develop it when this day would come. We knew from our neighbor Estonia, which joined the Eurozone one year before, that it takes people some time to get used to the new money and stop calculating the new and the old prices. So we had a really good, step-by-step approach to making the shift from the Lat, which was also a symbol of our independence, to the Euro. In the beginning, people feared a little that prices would rise or something else could happen, but nine months into it we can see that our economy remains stable. Also, this calculating thing was not such big a problem after all; for six months we kept price tags in both currencies and during the first month one could still buy anything for Lats and exchange them in banks. This has been a smooth process that benefits the entire Baltic zone. Next year when Lithuania also becomes a Eurozone member, all the three Baltic states will be there, and we hope this will lead to more investors coming to this region, which is important also in light of the geopolitical situation and is in line with our objective to orient our market more towards Western Europe rather than to Russia. |
АK: To what my colleague has said, I'll add that our party, a Social-Democratic one, has had some fears regarding the introduction of the Euro, as we thought people would suffer because of the rounding or going up of prices for some goods and services. We were afraind people would have to bear the expenses of this transition. Our fears came true only partially. The prices of some goods and services went up without justification, although there was a monitoring half a year before and half a year after the change. That's one thing. The second – don't forget that our monetary policy over the last ten years wasn't independent, it depended a lot on the Euro and that's why it didn't use any regulation tools to reduce inflation or ameliorate the crisis. Anyway, there was this dependence and that's why the transition was purely practical and wasn't painful, because Latvia had long lacked an independent monetary policy.
The people accepted the change pretty soon and there wasn't any kind of shock. The transition was flexible, there weren't complaints from the people that they didn't understand the banking policy or retailing. Everything was prepared in this regard. As regards Moldova's option, I think that in this case you must consider your desire to maintain your national currency in order to truly influence your monetary policy, including the fiscal one, because the fiscal policy will be immediately connected to the Eurozone. There are countries in the EU that benefit from the common currency, there are countries that have kept their own currency, while specialists argue and contradict each other about what is better. We'll probably be able to tell five years from now, because today it's really hard to speak about the real benefits, about the real inflow of money in the economy and how much it improved the investment climate in Latvia. That is why it's really hard to recommend something concretely.Overall, I think we can certainly say that the relations between our countries are friendly. We have many common things from the past, the present and the future and we can and must help each other. |
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IPN: Thank you.
