{"id":446088,"date":"2026-06-02T10:09:53","date_gmt":"2026-06-02T07:09:53","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ipn.md\/moldovans-have-understood-that-now-is-a-turning-point-and-that-they-must-decide-where-they-are-going-ipn-interview-with-professor-oliver-jens-schmitt\/"},"modified":"2026-06-02T13:08:08","modified_gmt":"2026-06-02T10:08:08","slug":"moldovans-have-understood-that-now-is-a-turning-point-and-that-they-must-decide-where-they-are-going-ipn-interview-with-professor-oliver-jens-schmitt","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ipn.md\/en\/moldovans-have-understood-that-now-is-a-turning-point-and-that-they-must-decide-where-they-are-going-ipn-interview-with-professor-oliver-jens-schmitt\/","title":{"rendered":"Moldovans have understood that now is a turning point and that they must decide where they are going. IPN interview with professor Oliver Jens Schmitt"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Being European means learning from others, and in today’s world, we can learn from each other and not only in the west-east direction, but also vice versa. Professor Oliver Jens Schmitt from the University of Vienna spoke in an interview<\/a> for IPN about the interest, respect and admiration that exists in the European Union for the Republic of Moldova and its people, but also about the dangers that lurk on the road to accession to the European community.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen! I have the honor of discussing today in the IPN studio with a distinguished guest: Professor Oliver Jens Schmitt, Doctor of History and one of the most important contemporary historians of Southeast Europe. He teaches the History of Southeast Europe at the University of Vienna and is a member of the Austrian Academy of Sciences, where he heads the Research Center for Balkan Studies. He has solid studies in the history of the Balkan countries and has written reference books on, among others, East European fascism, Orthodoxy, Romania and the East Soviet space. Professor, good morning and thank you for accepting the IPN invitation.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Thank you for this invitation.<\/p>\n\n

Professor, you are a historian trained in the Western world, but you have dedicated a large part of your work to Eastern Europe. Moreover, you are a very good expert in the languages \u200b\u200bof the Balkans. You speak Albanian, Romanian and some Slavic languages. I want to ask you first of all what initially attracted you to this area, especially to Romania and the Republic of Moldova?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

It is a very personal question and necessarily the answer must be very personal. Let’s say, the whole story begins with the family. My father originates from the city of Baden-Baden, which was a very famous spa in the 19th century, where tsars and many Romanian boyars spent their holidays. Among others, Prince Sturza, who built a small Orthodox church there. And my father, during the holidays, always took me there.<\/p>\n\n

And that was my first impression of Romanian culture, which was extremely exotic, of course, at the time. And my father, although he had no personal connection to Romania, would tell me about the Ceausescu dictatorship, about the fact that the society behind this church is completely separated from our society by the Iron Curtain. But there is also a Europe behind this curtain.<\/p>\n\n

And when I started studying Byzantine Studies in Vienna, I met there, in the student dormitory, the first generation of Romanian students, after the fall of communism, who came to study in the West. And with them, in the student dormitory kitchen, I learned Romanian, and I also spent my holidays in Romania. That’s how, let’s say, not only my interest began, but also a feeling of love for this culture and these Romanian-speaking countries.<\/p>\n\n

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After years of research in this region, do you think the West fully understands the identity and historical complexity of Moldova?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

No, no, not at all. But I can say, or I would dare to say, that this interest has now reached a level that has never existed before in history. I would say that Moldova, in the last few years, has attracted not only interest, but especially respect, but also more admiration.<\/p>\n\n

Because, even if I talk to politicians or students from here, I always evoke the civic courage of the Moldovans, which is much more developed than the civic courage from us. And that is why, I think, in Europe, these days, we can all learn from each other, and not only in the West-East direction in Europe or West-East, but also vice versa. And I think that is why, now, the interest is increased, that is, there is a demand from us to better understand how it is explained that Moldova, even compared to Romania, is a more resilient country, for example.<\/p>\n\n

And many, many people want to hear an answer, but I must say that I even came to Moldova to understand better, I do not claim to be as fine a connoisseur as the intellectuals here are. That is, let’s say, being European also means the idea of \u200b\u200blearning from the other.<\/p>\n\n

On the other hand, the Republic of Moldova is trying to redefine itself politically and culturally by moving closer to the European Union. How do you see this transformation from a historical perspective?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

I think that from a historical perspective, the Republic of Moldova now, has reached a turning point. Because never in the history of this region or this state, has Moldova attracted so much interest. Chisinau has found the most important European heads of state.<\/p>\n\n

It is a common phenomenon now, but it is not an old phenomenon, let’s say. Recently, Chisinau received 36 European ministers for the Council of Europe meeting. A declaration from Chisinau was published.<\/p>\n\n

Now it is part, let’s say, of the diplomatic and political life of Europe. And this shows that now Moldova and Chisinau are part of a, let’s say, a European political space and mentality. And I think it has simply become a fact, but a fact that is also due to the civic courage of Moldovan society. And there is, I think, a huge symbolic capital that has been accumulated here in recent years.<\/p>\n\n

In many of your books you analyze how states build their identity through historical memory. The Republic of Moldova seems somehow caught between several types of memories. If we refer to the Moldovan one, the Romanian one, the Soviet one. Is this fragmentation a political vulnerability?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

It is, yes, in the sense that it is instrumentalized for political purposes, which was, let’s say, in the 20th century and always the case of Moldova. And it is obvious, you mentioned Moldovanism, you mentioned Soviet ideology. On the other hand, as a natural reaction, we can observe an idealization of the interwar period. And I think that historically we must confront today’s society with the realities of the past.<\/p>\n\n

That is, we should not transfigure or present a past that never existed in black or white. And I know that history, not only in Moldova, but for many societies, can be a very painful process. But on the other hand, I am convinced that a democracy, a state of law, must also be based on the truth.<\/p>\n\n

And if this truth is painful, it helps us avoid the mistakes we made once. It is more dangerous and more painful to repeat mistakes than to analyze them, what happened in the past. And I think that is how I would define the role of the historian in this debate.<\/p>\n\n

And since we are still talking about history, how much does the Soviet legacy influence today’s institutions and public mentality in the Republic of Moldova?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

I believe that the Republic of Moldova is exposed to threats that are explained, at least in part, by a Russian imperial legacy. It is obvious that in the West the point or meaning of the motivation for this war was not well understood, which is a war that was launched not for economic reasons, that’s how we think in the West: there is always an economic reason behind conflicts – but this is an imperial conflict started by a political leader who has become a kind of amateur historian.<\/p>\n\n

And that is why I believe that unfortunately neither the Republic of Moldova nor the European Union in general have the possibility to bypass or avoid this historical dimension. As a historian, I must say that the times when history weighs and historians matter are unpleasant times.<\/p>\n\n

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In your research you talk about Moscow’s influence in Eastern Europe and you talk about this competition between the Russian imperial model and the European model. And my question is, do you consider Moldova to have a special strategic importance in this confrontation of models?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Yes, absolutely. Because in my last book about Moscow’s Western rivals I tried to show that the great theory of the American political scientist Samuel Huntington is completely wrong. Samuel Huntington built a world according to confessional categories, that is, there is an Orthodox world and all Orthodox are part of this world which is a kind of ruski mir, but built for the American public.<\/p>\n\n

I tried to show that this fault, this line that really separates two political worlds, passes not through the Catholic or Protestant world and the Orthodox one, but through Orthodox societies. Because we are dealing with different political cultures, not confessional cultures. And it is obvious that all these societies that were part of or had very close ties with the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and which was in the eastern part a predominantly Orthodox state, were part of a Western European world, in the sense that: they had the Assembly of Estates, it existed even in the Principality of Moldavia, that the powers of, let’s say, the monarch, were restricted, they were very limited in Poland-Lithuania, but even in Moldavia, the voivode was elected.<\/p>\n\n

The dynastic principle in Moscow never existed. And in Poland-Lithuania the idea and theory of public law of political freedom were part of the state ideology, it was well developed and there was, let’s say, a certain political culture and identity. In Moldova, of course, compared to Poland-Lithuania, less developed, but because many Moldovan boyars had houses in Lviv and Krakow, cultural ties were very close, even the fact that the Assembly of Estates in Moldova was sometimes characterized as the Sejm, that is, the Polish term was also used, shows that the Orthodox world was, in fact, divided into two camps, a Muscovite camp, with a separate political culture, and all the others, whose ties with Western political culture were much closer.<\/p>\n\n

And one last thing, the power of the Estates, let’s say, a proto-democratic culture, in this area was much more developed than in the European West. That is, the Polish-Lithuanian Parliament had powers or had competences that never existed in the French Parliament in the first early era. That is, in short, it is not culture, not confession that separates two political worlds in Europe, but political culture, closely linked to the existence of a Parliament and the existence of the idea or concept of law and freedom.<\/p>\n\n

Whether it was called the Tsarist Empire or the USSR or the Russian Federation, one of the tools used was propaganda. I would like to ask you how this Russian propaganda adapted to the new European context of Moldova?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Moldova has become in recent years a real problem for Moscow and for this Putin empire, because, let’s say, if we analyze the situation, it is the poorest country in Europe with strong emigration and all, let’s say, indicators or factors could give us the image that it is a lost country, but without any chance. But in reality it is completely different, that there is resilience in this country.<\/p>\n\n

I, personally, even in dialogues with colleagues, have come to the conclusion that, simply, Moldovans know this world, they know the Soviet world, they understand, compared to the Romanians beyond the Prut, simply and instinctively what it is about. And they understand much better than Westerners, who are either naive, or we also have problems with influence and hybrid warfare and we are exposed in a manner that is probably more serious than here, in Moldova, although we have much greater economic resources. But, simply, if you have a means and you don’t know how to use it because you don’t understand that an emergency has come, you are lost.<\/p>\n\n

And I think that this is also a gap that, perhaps for your viewers, might sound very strange coming from a Westerner, but I am trying to bridge the gap between your reality and your experience and what we live in the West. And that is why I think, and I repeat, being European means learning from the other who probably understands a situation better than you.<\/p>\n\n

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And because the war in Ukraine accelerated Moldova’s rapprochement with the European Union, I would like to ask you if you believe that this war somehow also led to the definitive change in Moldova’s geopolitical identity?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

It certainly had an impact, but not only on the part of Moldova, but also on the part of Europe. Because it is, let’s say, an intertwined process. On the one hand, the war had a huge impact on Moldova, but we must not forget how Moldova reacted, even on the first day after the Russian attack.<\/p>\n\n

It was an incredibly courageous gesture. Let’s say, our government did not show this level of civic courage and it was a spontaneous reaction on the one hand and a well-thought-out reaction on the other. Of course, Moldova received a lot of Ukrainian refugees. A fact that aroused, let’s say, curiosity, even surprise in the West. Because you know, here, well, refugees were received, but the extreme right from the beginning started an agitation against them. But as I said, on the one hand Moldova itself changed.<\/p>\n\n

Many Moldovans understood that now is a turning point. We have to decide where we are going. But on the other hand, Europe understood that Moldova is not a small country somewhere in the middle of the world, but it matters. And the reaction, even symbolic, was very clear. Measures were taken that are even visible, in terms of roaming, movement of people, investments in infrastructure. Of course, the war accelerated this and at the moment, even compared to other candidate states, Moldova certainly has the greatest prestige.<\/p>\n\n

I am, you mentioned, – and I also deal with the Balkan space – I am often in North Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania and other states that have been negotiating with the European Union for years, but never and nowhere is there, let’s say, such a clear majority because you had a referendum, you had elections, meaning it is not only an elite project, but this pro-European elite has always tried to integrate, to involve society and that seems very important to me.<\/p>\n\n

Because in the other candidate countries, Albania, for example, is an authoritarian state, North Macedonia is also in a deep crisis, Serbia is also an authoritarian state and from the Moldovan point of view, this shows that Moldova, which was certainly last 10 years ago in this category, has become the first and not by chance, because Moldovans have done a lot and a lot and I can simply say and this is not my personal opinion, but it is, it stems from many discussions that we have had in recent years, it is also a sign of gratitude.<\/p>\n\n

Professor, in your books you have also written about the relationship between church and power in Eastern Europe, so I would like to ask you what role Orthodoxy plays in the geopolitical orientation of post-Soviet societies and how dangerous it is for fragile democracies when history and religion become political tools?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

It is a very important question, there are several dimensions. There is a country where the answer is obvious: it is Russia, where the church has put itself at the service of a dictatorial system, a system that justifies that the Orthodox attack an Orthodox country, destroy, kill other Orthodox, destroy the cultural heritage, the cultural legacy of a great Orthodox people, that is, it is clear that this church has strayed very far from the meaning, from the purpose of our faith and it is love for the other and not murder. As for the European Union, I would say that the situation is very interesting. The European Union has not yet understood that by integrating Greece, Bulgaria and Romania it has also become an Orthodox power.<\/p>\n\n

Orthodoxy is an integral part of our common European heritage, but on the one hand the Western post-Christian elites have never understood that this war now in Ukraine is also an inter-Orthodox war because Ukraine also defends another interpretation of Orthodoxy, an interpretation closely linked to the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. Those who know a little history know that the roots of this conflict begin somewhere in the 15th century. But on the other hand it is not only to say the strategic mistake of the Western post-Christian elites, but on the other hand, unfortunately, the Orthodox churches that are already part of the European Union have not understood this chance, because Orthodoxy does not exclude the rule of law, Orthodoxy does not exclude democracy.<\/p>\n\n

This is Russian propaganda. But unfortunately, neither the Romanian Orthodox Church nor the other Orthodox churches have tried to formulate, let’s say, a theory that shows that you can be Orthodox in Europe, you are welcome as Orthodox in Europe. We can give Europe something, that Orthodox culture and heritage can enrich European culture.<\/p>\n\n

Because the reaction has always been, let’s say, defensive: the West, and this is Russian propaganda, the West with degraded morals, with homosexuality and so on, and we have to defend our values. But why is the church so defensive? Can it offer something, enter into dialogue? And that, unfortunately, is missing, although there are, especially in Romania, there are some Orthodox, pro-European intellectuals who are trying to build this bridge, unfortunately, without active support, let’s say, from the Romanian Patriarchate. And the Bulgarian Orthodox Church is now under Russian control, Patriarch Daniel was a pro-Russian candidate and Greece, unfortunately, does not play an important role. I mean, I would say that the intellectual potential for the integration of Orthodoxy in Europe is very great and I think it is a very, very important message because many people who live in Orthodox societies are believers and are welcome as such in Europe as well.<\/p>\n\n

But it depends not only, let’s say, on how they are received in Europe, but also on how Orthodox intellectuals and church figures try to enter this dialogue.<\/p>\n\n

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Let’s stay in the present and address another topic. In many European countries we are seeing a very large increase, a rise in populism and political radicalism. That’s why I would like to ask you if there are certain lessons from the interwar period that should also concern Eastern European societies today?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

If we study or compare the collapse of democracy, for example in Germany and in Greater Romania, there are certain elements that we can identify. First of all, of course, always an economic crisis that also caused extremely negative effects in interwar Germany and in Romania.<\/p>\n\n

But a democracy also suffers from a lack of respect from the elites. Even in Germany and in interwar Romania, a good part of the elites waged a kind of civil war against this constitutional system. There was always talk of an imminent collapse, a system that would naturally disappear because it was too weak, and if citizens are bombarded for years with this kind of discourse, of course they have difficulty understanding why the system needs to be defended.<\/p>\n\n

Another very important factor was the weakness of the democratic parties to collaborate together against the extreme left and extreme right currents. And I think that the case of the collapse of the constitutional democratic state in a greater Romania is a telling example because when King Carol II and the authoritarian elites tried and succeeded in destroying the constitutional democratic state, the traditional parties, the National Liberal Party, the National Peasant Party, which had been fighting among themselves for years, were unable to react. Dinu Bratianu and Iuliu Maniu reached a kind of political compromise, but it was too late, they failed to mobilize the people and a last very important element, a big difference between today and then was the lack of a Romanian bourgeoisie.<\/p>\n\n

Because here in Chisinau, but also in Timisoara, in all the cities in the west of the country, the majority was composed of citizens of non-Romanian ethnicity. These, so-called, minorities were never integrated into this state, the state did not try to offer them something, to show that, well, you speak a different language, you have a different cultural tradition, but you are still a Romanian citizen. Only Romania for Romanians and only for Romanians was propagated and it is obvious, if a state with 30% minorities is in a crisis, these citizens are not involved, that is, why should they be loyal in a moment of crisis, if they have been marginalized for years.<\/p>\n\n

And on the other hand, and this played a very important role, the lack of a bourgeoisie and a civic spirit, which exists today and that is why, I think, this is probably the biggest difference between the situation today and then, that in Moldova, but especially in Romania, there is now a middle class, which knows what it has to gain from a democratic system compared to an authoritarian system.<\/p>\n\n

And finally, after years of research and analysis in this region, what have you understood about Eastern Europe that Westerners still fail to see?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

I think, first of all, it’s probably, with a little political pathos, the space where the European flag flies is here and not in the center. And that means a lot.<\/p>\n\n

And I think that this is also something that I always discuss with students, but I also try to convey to our media. People here, in Moldova, in Ukraine, let’s say in societies that are not yet part of the European Union, understand much better what Europe means, what it means to be European, what European culture is, than we, let’s say, in the old center. In this sense, again, we need, we also have something to learn from you.<\/p>\n\n

Professor, thank you very much for this interview.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

Thank you too.<\/p>\n\n

We thank Professor Oliver Jens Schmitt for this discussion about Eastern Europe, about historical memory and the positioning of the Republic of Moldova between East and West. The idea remains that the way a society understands the past directly influences its choices for the future, especially in a region where history remains a space of confrontation and not just interpretation.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n

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